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		<title>Controlling our future</title>
		<description>Discuss Controlling our future</description>
		<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html</link>
		<lastBuildDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2026 09:48:30 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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			<title>Renegade says:</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-1283</link>
			<description><![CDATA[My appologies for not posting this sooner. LRH states: "And so it is in all of life one could say that with people in general, where you find a great deal of upset and unrest, tumult and confusion, we have simply omitted this thing called the power of choice." ... "But let us say that Jinx suddenly walked up and said "I am now the representative of this entire district and you're going to do what I say" Naooow! That's a dangerous thing for a man to do." ... "Well, now, that's about as far south as you go on power of choice - politics, ballots so on- unless the public itself is able to express its choice originally. If you really wanted people satisfied with the government, and the government is doing just terribly-I mean everything is crashing on all sides, and everybody's satisfied with the government-then you would find present this thing: that everybody has been permitted to choose on his own free discretion who the candidates were that eventually stepped up to the ballot box, and not only that, but choose the committees that chose the candidates. And if everybody chose everything on their own determinism and decision and they got around to arresting Jinx who, at this moment, is no better than he ever was, you see-everybody would say, "Well, we elected him. Here he is." But we also feel we could talk to him. And we get the lower order at work too. Communication becomes possible. He's there because we said he'd be there, and we believe that." ... "One of the reasons why is Jinx steps up, says, "I am now the Grand High Generalissimo of the area and anybody that disagrees with me is herein before stated (as per proclamation eighty-six, nailed on the wall there) going to be shot with one bullet." The public says, "Nyahrarara! Let's see how we can get around to exercising a little power of choice around here. Let's have some revolutionary parties. Let's have some undergrounds. Let's have some counterrevolution. Let's do something. Because obviously we can't communicate with this fellow because we never at any one moment had any choice in his being there." LRH goes on to state how Jinx would need to appoint enough captains of the guard to keep the peace, hiring secret police, pretty much what's occurring now. I can't stress it enough, that this lecture should be listened to in its entirety. It covers so much more than the above and a handling.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Renegade</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 16:46:20 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-1283</guid>
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			<title>Boyd H</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-969</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Indeed. We´ll figure it out.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>OTB</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jan 2010 03:10:06 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-969</guid>
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			<title>Boyd H says:</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-966</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I'm in the same boat OTB, I don't have certainty on it. One thing's for sure, we're all banded together and I think it's starting to look like a viable answer to David's shenanigans. Maybe we can't secure the future three generations from now but we can for sure do it for this next one. Actually scratch that, I just realized the answer to it is "We come back".]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Boyd H</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 21:52:42 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-966</guid>
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			<title>re:</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-937</link>
			<description><![CDATA[A very astute observation Anon, one I'd seen many times while I was on staff. I called it the "The Charge of the Light Brigade" syndrome or the Nuremberg syndrome as in "I vas onlY vollowinG vorders". Yeah that worked out well for them. You could always get into a "Radar O'Rielly, Colonel Blake" syndrome where you know your senior is a complete moron but fearing something worse you prop him or her up any way which is the situation I found myself in a lot. However, the most usual is the one you mention well he or she is the "boss". I think the main problem here Anon, is that now many staff are urged to apply other tech like "Message to Garcia". The no questions asked just do it that Elbert another Hubbard promoted in his little tract a century ago. You know similarities that are actually different made to seem the same. Along with wrong source. Well it is "Hubbard". Yeah whatever :-)]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 17:59:02 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-937</guid>
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			<title>John Doe Lurker</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-934</link>
			<description><![CDATA[JDL - Excellent point on the danger formula. This in fact is the real operational policy we're looking at right now. While we're all addressing the danger, opening eyes and getting people to wake up to the fact that DM is running the Church towards the cliff, this step of 3 Danger is spot on.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>OTB</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 15:02:27 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-934</guid>
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			<title>Joe Howard</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-933</link>
			<description><![CDATA[That's an interesting system. Is it documented anywhere?]]></description>
			<dc:creator>OTB</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:58:37 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-933</guid>
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			<title>Boyd H</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-932</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Boyd H - I agree - it can spin off and derail on that system too. One thing is for sure... somehow both staff (Sea Org, CL V and missions) as well as Scientology publics - need to have a cause point in this matter. If we can't have a say in our leadership - then it violates the quintessential core of what Scientology is all about - FREEDOM. THE entity that LRH put there to ensure that this would NEVER happen - that I am aware of anyhow - is RTC. The very same one that has ended up usurping the power and going against everything LRH said they were supposed to protect. RTC was intended as the fail-safe mechanism to make sure management stayed true to the tech and policy. DM played the hand with his own suit, threw LRH's instructions out the window, and started his own show with him running the Church which is utterly opposed to his function. I'm not lecturing anyone here - just for the record. I don't have the answer to this dilemma - honestly! I'm just posing this to all the great people out there and stirring the soup because I think that we have to dialog this and get an agreed upon handle to the problem. Maybe RJ and others are right. Maybe it's all about getting everyone to steel up to the fact that they are responsible and to suck it up and fight back with policy. Maybe that's the only system that will work in spite of the fact that it has failed in these past 20 years. Purely a KSW view. Or maybe there is something else we need to consider. I'm not convinced myself on how it should be. I do know this - I fought like a bastard when I was INSIDE, to go up against DM and his campaign, and I was bowled over every time - and I'm a loud mouthed obstinate cow when I dig in my heels. I know others who were the same. If there are "better" people around than us, then I'd like to see them do a better job. I took bullets for over 20 years when I started my personal war against the "system". Ok ... I'm ranting. Uggh.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>OTB</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:57:08 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-932</guid>
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			<title>Renegade</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-931</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Renegade - I would love to see that quote if you can find it - that would help.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>OTB</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 14:37:31 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-931</guid>
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			<title>The truth of the matter</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-929</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Hello Anonymous. Regarding staff having their own wog ideas. That is why you have a Qual Div that has a department called CORRECTION. That is one of the reasons LRH wrote the HCOPL AND HCOBS called False Data Srtipping and Crashing MU Finding and so many other technical actions that properly hat a person. When the LRH Comms allowed the Dive 1 HCOs not to be established there by preventing the building of an org that includes no Qualifications Div the whole thing becomes a mess. Ref HCOPL HCO MAKES THE ORG OEC VOL 1. If you don't set it up right in the beginning it never does work. That is well known and practiced by s/ps. The same goes for an improperly established republic form of government. The lesson is get hatted in the OEC FEBC ESTO Training and in the TECH and make sure everyone around does the same with no ifs, ands or buts. Jose[censored]]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Joseph</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 03:13:58 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-929</guid>
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			<title>Guest says:</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-928</link>
			<description><![CDATA[LRH said that government is simply the combined irresponsibility of the people. We can clearly see that even in CO$ government. You seem to be suggesting more of the same. Any hierarchical power scheme is open to abuse, including "democracy" which Hubbard rightfully disdained. The org board is a flow of organization, not a flow of power. The trouble is that org staff brought their own wog ideas of organization, management and government into the church. Like the idea that your senior is your "boss", and is better than you or has more power than you.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:35:31 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-928</guid>
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			<title>OEC and LRH</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-927</link>
			<description><![CDATA[RJ, Very well done on what you said. In our group EVERYONE has to do OEC Vol 0 and the DSEC (Original checksheet by MARY Sue) as early on actions (as suggested by LRH in "Orders Illegal and Cross How to Keep Out of Trouble") in ones career as Scientologist. "We won't get fooled again!" Jose[censored]]]></description>
			<dc:creator>JOSEPH</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:35:01 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-927</guid>
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			<title>An idea worth fleshing out</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-926</link>
			<description><![CDATA[RJ, I have a great deal of respect for you due to your history of wise comments, but I think OTB has a good point here. The United States, the world's oldest democracy, has hobbled along for over 200 years with elected leadership and representation. Scientology leadership FAILED starting only a few short years after LRH left. It has failed despite all the policies and governing committees such as Watch Dog Committee, and all the well-intentioned staff. There is almost universal agreement that DM has to go, but no powerful enough way enshrined in policy to dislodge him or any future leader turned despot. Now the very subject of Scientology is in danger. DM happened. Let us not loose the painful lesson of this, and fail to confront that our system failed. Once DM is gone, a system to elect our church leaders should be put in place. After a decade or so in power, leaders of countries begin to feel like they own the place, and this certainly happened with DM. Step 6 of 3D Danger: "Recommend any firm policy that will hereafter detect and/or prevent the condition from recurring." Step 6 of 1D Danger says it even stronger: "Formulate and adopt firm policy that will hereafter detect and prevent the same situation form continuing to occur." (Italics mine)]]></description>
			<dc:creator>John Doe Lurker</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:34:42 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-926</guid>
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			<title>One missing element</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-925</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I've heard that in some companies that a person's junior can call for a vote of confidence on the senior. All of the person's juniors are allowed to vote yea or nay and if the nays are in the majority, the senior either loses his job or undergoes retraining or whatever. It is a club that the juniors have and can use if things are not going right. Only the senior's direct juniors can vote. If this policy existed you can bet that seniors would be a lot more concerned about being standard and therefore more productive. It also has a self policing aspect to it: if Jane is continually calling for votes of confidence on Joe yet Joe keeps winning the vote, the bony finger would eventually point to Jane. Face it, the KR PL did squat to police abuses from seniors. Something else is needed.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Joe Howard</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:34:04 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-925</guid>
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			<title>Choosing a Leader</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-923</link>
			<description><![CDATA[LRH does talk about choosing a leader in the lecture "Power of Choice and Self-Determinism" from the Personal Achievement Series. I don't have the exact quote to hand but will look for it. In the mean time, if you have the lecture, check it out, he talks specifically about what is happening right now, where public and staff have no power of choice and what happens, and how it should be.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Renegade</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:33:13 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-923</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RJ</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-921</link>
			<description><![CDATA[RJ - Good point. I must say at the outset of this dialog that I am not big on any systems. I prefer an OT group - LRH's concept too. The Sea Org in essence should remain as an elite group of OTs who operate cooperatively and at the highest possible level of create. That being said, the system failed already because we are dealing with an organization that is LARGELY composed of non-OTs in the hands of a dictator. LRH says right in the lecture THE FREE BEING, that a group of humanoids can eventually overcome an OT on the simple basis of numbers and agreement. What we see happening in the SO in the past 20 years is a very similar operation. The OTs, what few us there were in the SO, were out-numbered by so many low-grade chart people, who played into DMs hands. In fact, the system was turned against the OTs from within - and the Purif comps and Life Repairs were moved up into positions of power and as such and they started implementing his regimented military style "robot" protocols - and of course any OT is eventually going to rebel against too much stupid control. I say this a bit with tongue in cheek as I realize someone could take this offensively, but I'm sorry - if you were an OT in the Sea Org - it was clearly evident that you would eventually become a target. I watched, agonizingly, as one OT after another got taken out. The truth is that the Sea Org marches to DM's tune in part because the individuals within it are not up to taking him on, one on one. As a group YES they could - but who is going to organize them to start fighting back against his squirrel orders and dictatorial mandates. Ideally if every person refused his squirrel orders - he'd fail - but the unfortunate truth is that he simply organized the masses against ANYONE that spoke up against him - and in large part - it was the old timers and OTs who told him to stick it. It takes some guys and gals with balls - and I'm afraid that quality is rapidly disappearing with the OTs and veterans. Now - after that rant - I am also not suggesting that an electoral system is necessarily the best system or the only system. But I do absolutely think that we have to assume that the system ALREADY has a built-in aberration and we cannot assume that it will just go right in the future. Any engineer will agree with that logic. If a plane fails once in flight, it will do so again if the error is not found and corrected. The Sea Org organization has a broken or missing mechanism somewhere. I certainly am NOT for some squirrel admin system and I agree with KSW (which is why I am even saying anything at all) - but maybe if we look at it, maybe someone will know that LRH wrote a despatch on this, or told RTC to issue a policy on this very point so that the Church could not fall prey to this. I don't know - but I am certain that we need to take some measures to make sure that the Sea Org and Scientology falls into and stays in positive hands.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>OTB</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:32:44 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-921</guid>
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			<title>I\'m just saying</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-920</link>
			<description><![CDATA["bunch of whacked out power hungry aristocrats jaunting around treating everyone else as underlings" Isn't this precisely the problem our republic currently faces? As evidenced by the 'tea party' vote them all out in 2010 crowd. Not to mention the other government systems the world over, treating their citizens in precisely the same manner despite the name of the construct: Fascism, Socialism, Republic, Democracy, Parliamentary form, etc, etc ad nausea-um.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>WomanSetFree</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:32:13 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-920</guid>
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			<title>Li Po says:</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-918</link>
			<description><![CDATA[About this topic, here is a interesting ref. from Ron: " (...)we could see, for instance, that an administrator favored secrecy in his dealings, that he practiced cruelty on individuals of a group but masked the cruelty under “necessity,” that he altered or suppressed every plan submitted to him—one could spot him on the tone scale at about 1.1. One could see immediately that the organization would be inclined toward death and that it would fail. Actually, the very measures he may so convincingly postulate to answer up to “emergencies” will bring failure and disaster. The effect upon a group of any individual of that group depends upon the altitude the individual holds with the group. A person holding a command post with a group may have as much or more weight on the group than the combined members of the group unless a system is devised which gives more stature to the individual members themselves. A group, then, alert to bring about the highest level of survival for the group, to conquer for it the maximum amount of MEST, should be alert to the position on the tone scale of the leaders of that group. The group itself can deduce the position of a leader on the tone scale by the way he handles ARC." DIAGNOSIS AND REPAIR OF GROUPS (red vol 1, page 126) I agree with RJ, the solution is contained in the OEC, and I agree with OTB, we all have to stay alert!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Li Po</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:29:43 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-918</guid>
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			<title>Boyd H says:</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-924</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I know where you're coming from OTB. It's my opinion that stats should be the only factor, and this will make politicians out of Int base staff. Also those vying for the position would want to make themselves known to the public but maybe the best one doesn't care about putting their face out there. Some public wouldn't care about stats and some SP's would get together and try to force through their guy with a PR campaign.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Boyd H</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 18:30:00 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-924</guid>
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			<title>RJ says:</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-917</link>
			<description><![CDATA[OTB, For once I have to disagree with you buddy. Democracy or a Republican form of Government is not the answer, because you are trying to solve a "problem" that really needs no solution. The fact is that Miscavige's assumption of power has nothing to do with any org board or policy that the Ol'man ever wrote! The post of Founder or Commodore was a post that was never supposed to be succeeded to. See HCOPL LRH Relationship to Orgs. Also the democracy you seek is already covered under those policies in Volume VII under Advisory Councils. Yes I know most Scientologists are unaware of these policies but they better become aware of these policies pretty quick because if they do not become aware of them we will end up in the fire instead of just the Frying Pan! Your answer to the "problem of succession" is simple and is contained in HCOPLs. Promoting some public system of government just ain't gonna cut it in my book nor in the OECs either! Sure with a system of representation we may be slightly better off, some say worse, because the highest purpose of democracy is to achieve mediocracy. A republic less so but more open to elitism. They are only for those who want to be led and can not take responsibility for their own actions. For those who choose to follow orders as covered in the HCOB Robotism, which is how we ended up where we are right now! If more people had chosen to query every insane order that came out of that little tyrants mouth or just refused to comply per HCOPLs 'Orders Query of' and 'Orders Illegal and Cross' instead of saying "yessir" we would have been a lot better off. For instance if somebody had said when Miscavige proposed a bunch of squirrelly drills he packaged as the "Golden Age of Tech" and said that it violated HCOPL 'Drills Allowed' and therefore you are asking me to carry out an illegal order and by the way who are you to order me to do this anyway? Yes I know we all failed in ways large or small to do exactly that. We tolerated alterations of policy and tech, but now it is time to stop that and not make the same error again whether we have one tyrant or a thousand "elected" tyrants saying that we do just that! All you have to do is read KSW to see how much faith Ron had in democracy and neither do I. Let's not exchange one squirrel group for another one.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>RJ</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jan 2010 01:07:44 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-917</guid>
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			<title>An Important Distinction: Democracy versus Republi</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-916</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I did not have a clear understanding of the difference between a Republican form of government, and a purely Democratic form of government. So here is a link to a site with a good description: [censored]://www.lexrex.com/enlight ened/AmericanIdeal/aspects/demrep.h tml Thanks for this post!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Gaiagnostic</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 23:06:09 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/controlling-our-future.html#comment-916</guid>
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