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		<title>Is Scientology a religion?</title>
		<description>Discuss Is Scientology a religion?</description>
		<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html</link>
		<lastBuildDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2026 09:48:19 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<item>
			<title>This Is Scientology</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-5187</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Scientology is a drug (meta[censored]orically ... duh!). Therefore it is a religion or close enough. I wrote a series of blog posts about what I think of Scientology after twenty-two years of it. Jus'in anybody's interested.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Vance Woodward</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 22 Oct 2012 14:11:05 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-5187</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3772</link>
			<description><![CDATA[As a believing and somewhat practicing Catholic, I agree, and I have a better understanding of Catholicism from studying Scn. Though I guess belief and awareness of past lives makes one an "apostate" per the Magisterium which does not even permit belief in "ghosts", so I do not take Communion if I attend Mass (though I'm sure Christ is aware of the truth). It has begun to bother me that a Catholic cross was "borrowed" and re-defined to represent Scientology, which is a bit disingenuous and bad PR I feel, especially to Christians. I would like to see Catholics use Dianetics and Scientology, instead of relying on psychiatry and psychology so much, but being classified a "religion", it is perceived as competition and a threat. It would be more accepted as an applied spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y open to all religions and beliefs, but it will probably take decades of work to restore the reputation now.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Veritas</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2011 13:39:17 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3772</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3770</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Hi Steve, I joined in 1973 because I liked the description used then and could understand and relate to it as an "applied religious [censored]iloso[censored]y". For me it was more than just science, [censored]iloso[censored]y, religion. The three words above described it best back then. Klaus]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Klaus</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 04 Feb 2011 05:04:58 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3770</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3729</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Really great article and I cannot count how many times I found myself nodding my head in agreement. I've never considered myself religious and also found issue with much organized religion, so was always most comfortable in calling Scientology an applied spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y, not a religion. In my view, calling it a 'religion' can act as a stop for many people -- both religious and non-religious. As you said, it's also very limiting to try to boil Scientology down to 'religion'. I've always that found Scientology is a religion in more of the Buddhist sense, rather than the western idea of religion (i.e., Christianity and maybe if they are a little more broad-minded, Judaism and Islam), but the majority of people in America do not have any real concept of non-theistic religions. An issue I had with things like Sunday services and minister's garb is that these are all Christian and the way such things were implemented were generally very pandering. It all seemed unnecessary to me and smacked of an attempt at convincing people of Scientology's legitimacy as a religion, which of course backfires as you described. If someone wants to wear minister's garb or hold services, that is one thing -- they aren't doing it for PR reasons, but for their own spiritual reasons and I've no problem with that -- but to me, that isn't part of Scientology. As for the cross, it can be argued that this symbol isn't solely a Christian symbol, but in the western world, at least, it is and has only been a Christian symbol for so long that this is a hard argument to sell.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Moving Forward</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jan 2011 12:49:11 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3729</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3712</link>
			<description><![CDATA[This is the best article I have seen written to explain Scientology in it's entirety. As a Catholic, I never felt my religion conflicted with the teachings of Scientology. (Maybe I am unique), I found lessons learned, projections, my conscious reactions, and so on to be separate from Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Sign me up to the re-opening of the training bridge! I am most interested!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Gigi</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 18:51:28 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3712</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3703</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Originally, LRH said Scientology was a science. He didn’t think too highly of organized religion: Later on LRH said Scientologists voted to qualify it as a religion Hi Thoughtful, I have a couple of questions I trust you have considered and possibly came to conclusions on. #1. I've never heard of anyone mentioning 'they' (old time scientologists) voted to qualify Scientology as a Religion. Adding to that Ron's statements regarding not allowing 'group think' to determine policy, tech, etc. it seems odd that Ron would let the group overturn his original classification of scientology as being a science, or an applied [censored]iloso[censored]y. #2. On the subject of Ron's tendencies, I find it almost impossible to believe L. Ron Hubbard, one of the most prolific writers/authors in history, didn't issue a final communication/bulletin/briefing, or something in writing to Scientologists of the world regarding his conscious decision to 'drop the meat body' to do upper level research. Adding to that the fact his will was changed the day before his passing and I struggle to comprehend how some authorities did not investigate the whole affair as being suspicious. Any thoughtful thoughts on such issues? Thanks,]]></description>
			<dc:creator>lamoore</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 31 Dec 2010 15:09:42 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3703</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3699</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Good one Jim. I think LRH knows how to know. I think (opinion) that we have a long ways to go to understand what he understands. Which leads me to "Life is Understanding". Sheesh. So far in this life the only understanding I got was the harshities of life. That is, until I ran into Scientology. One of the first actions I did was the PRD and that kicked the door wide open for "Life is Understanding" and "Knowing How to Know". When I studied an LRH PL or HCOB I always imagined what the situation was for him writing this and trying to duplicate his Universe. Well, I was aspiring to duplicate his universe. Forget it. But I think Study Tech, along with the Clearning Course, OT II and OT III we begin Life. ML Tom]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Tom M</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 12:27:42 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3699</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Re: Is Scn a Religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3698</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Tom, I've batted around that 'knowing how to know' since I got into Scn in 75. What the hell DOES that mean? I found out what it means by studying up through the materials, starting with Dianetics and getting to the 1st ACC lectures. In those the simplicity of it was explained by LRH. I think it was an example of fixing a broken car. Your car stops running, you don't know much about cars, yet you open the hood and start to look it over. You stand there looking at this thing and work out right there how and what goes where and which does this and that. With your attention units, your own ARC you extend out and perceive and permeate the thing and solve how the car works and what could be wrong with its working. There it is, a plug wire has come loose. Click, it goes back into place and vroooom your car works. You come to understand with being there, looking, gaining a reality on what is what by communication and you come to know. Another example, my own. I'm upset about some area of life. Don't get it, pisses me off and I'm nattery as fuck about it. I look and find my own MWH's, clean them up, now I know the source of my upset, I look at the area again, permeate it with theta manifested as ARC and I can know what the area is and have no upset related to it. I know how to handle an upset. Even more basic, and possibly somewhat esoteric, anything TO know in the Three Universes is something 'out there' that is a result of a viewpoint creating a dimension point which serves as a stopping point for attention. Simply putting attention on and through and under and over and around something, you can know what it is. Scientology gave me the KRC on the various ways and means to know something, anything and I use Scientology to know. I know HOW to know.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jim Logan</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 10:00:34 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3698</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: RE: RE: faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3697</link>
			<description><![CDATA[That makes incredible sense. I think I blew down a bit on that. THANK YOU!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Obnosis</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Thu, 30 Dec 2010 01:29:57 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3697</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>Re: Is Scn a Religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3696</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Good article Steve. You laid it out quite well. LRH said that Scientology means knowing how to know - a study of knowledge. American Heritage defines [censored]iloso[censored]y as: "The love and puruit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self discipline." The derivation is "Loving Wisdom". However, Scientology is all about application. LRH says "knowing how to know." I don't think I completely know how to know yet. Don't think I fully achieved that. I know how to audit another person and I know something of the mind, but I have not studied up to Class VIII so I don't know all there is about the Tech. To me [censored]iloso[censored]y is a study. Scientology is a study AND application. One studies and applies what he has studied in order to learn how to know. Anyhow, that's my take on it. I've always felt comfortable with. So when someone says to me "What is Scientology?" I tell them that it is the technology of learning how to know. ML Tom]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Tom M</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 22:17:54 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3696</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3695</link>
			<description><![CDATA[obnosis, Here's a train of thought on the 'belief in'. If you believe in some aspect of Scientology, then you've not taken ownership for that aspect to make it your own. You've not assumed cause over that particular thing. It is selected out as something 'out there', a technical term used to describe it being a 'randomity'. It is an 'other-determined' thing. Eventually this 'belief in' will flip around and you'll find yourself opposing that which you believed in. This all comes about on the basis of not actually assuming cause and ownership over any aspect of Scientology for yourself but accepting it on 'faith'. It's the same cycle that happens with any topic you 'believe in' with no further responsibility for your own certainty, yourself as something to have faith in, and observing for yourself whether something is or isn't. Scientology is NOT a faith based, 'believe in' spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y. If someone approaches it that way or finds they've gone that route, then they've wittingly or unwittingly selected out the subject as an other-determined randomity. (See the 2nd Advanced Clinical Course tapes, 27 Nov 53, SYMBOLS).]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jim Logan</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 19:19:30 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3695</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: RE: faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3693</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Good questions. "You're out ethics" is David Miscavige's pat answer designed and intended to intimidate people and overwhelm them. I wouldn't say that. Anyone in the current church is going to become wildly PTS. They get gains and then lose them because their gains are being actively invalidated by an SP in present time -- a Type A PTS condition. In this case, it's especially disastrous because the "SP" is the Church itself! The "Church" (an SP group) can't remedy the PTS condition and keep the person in the Church, so they say "You just need more sec checking." No, the person needs a standard PTS handling which would have been free and is easy to do. The pc or pre-OT would either have to handle the SP Church or disconnect. Me, I decided to do both. I disconnected from DM, from Int management and from the Sea Org. And now I'm handling them too, but from a safe distance because they are infected with a disease. Many people hang up at Doubt because of false data. They don't know that they can move on up the Bridge outside the Church in a safe environment. The problem is not the OT levels. The OT levels work. The problem is being connected to a malevolent, raving, rabidly antagonistic, suppressive person or group of the worst kind and wrongly attributing one's failed gains to the tech, whereas the failure to hold a gain is due to being PTS. That IS the tech. This is proven out in the huge resurgences in OT abilities people experience after they finally come to terms with what really happened to them in the Church. I've written a much longer article on this subject which I will try to finish up and publish soon. Thanks again, Obnosis, for the good questions.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Thoughtful</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 12:28:32 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3693</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: RE: faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3692</link>
			<description><![CDATA[obnosis, I have done up through and past OT III. My experience of this material is vastly different than those you refer to. Aside from the 'story', the [censored]enomena, reading heavily on the meter, and the results of life change are what I gained. I'm also well-versed in the body of work that led up to these materials. I've experienced life-changing gains in all the 'lower grades' including Dianetics. I got the results, all the way up. The results from these Upper Levels was way, way, way more than I ever expected or could have predicted.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jim Logan</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Wed, 29 Dec 2010 11:07:30 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3692</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3691</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I thought of a couple other examples. Jason Beghe in his video interview, and I para[censored]rase from memory, in looking back at OT III (he did through OT V), basically laughs at it and can't believe he believed the story. (I haven't done any of the OT levels, but how does one complete through OT V and not have personal reality on the data?) Or Larry Anderson, trained auditor, who after many years says he did not get the promised results?]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Obnosis</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 22:58:26 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3691</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3690</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Thank you for your response. You live up to your name Thoughtful. :) I think I basically agree with what you're saying. I'm curious what you'd say to someone like Jeff Hawkins or similarly myself who do acknowledge workability of some parts of Scn but question other parts, based on our own firsthand experiences. For example, Jeff acknowledges gains from the Grades, but questions the OT Levels, and he has done through OT III. Would you say regarding what is questioned "What's true for you is true for you" or would you say "You must have MU's" or "You must have out-ethics" or "You must not have received standard tech or applied it in a standard manner"? I guess my point is that one gets some auditing and sees that it works, so one wants to do the higher levels, believing that if the lower level worked, the upper levels will work too. There is faith then, yes, based on experience, that the higher levels will work too. But you really don't know until you do them. So one is doing them on faith. You won't know it works till you've done it. In the current Church, that can be a very expensive investment of time and money, and if you don't get the results hoped for, you are told "You just need more." And many people buy that. To me, that is faith in the technology. I think this dead horse has been beaten enough. I respect you and what you do!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Obnosis</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 22:43:25 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3690</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3689</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Iam, I think you're missing the point. I'm not suggesting to have ministers and Sunday services for "deceptive reasons." Why are you dubbing that in? The Church has ministers and Sunday services so they can call it a religion -- that's an example of a deceptive reason. Scientology IS a study of wisdom, and thus a goldmine of information that can really benefit people and improve well-being. If someone wants to dish out helpful information to an audience on Sunday, I have no problem with that. I'm saying it would be possible to be a minister of Scientology without saying it's a religion, in which case there is no deception. The derivation of "minister" comes from earlier words that mean to steer, direct, supply or serve. You can't say the concept doesn't fit. I used to wear my minister's mock up before I was in the Sea Org. And you know what? There was something right about it. I got very positive feedback from the general public. But I wasn't doing it so Scientology could be called a religion. I was doing it because it sent a message out to the community that I (as an auditor) was there to help. I'm not beating the drum for any of this -- it's not even the point of of my article -- I'm just saying if someone wants to do that, there is probably no reason they couldn't. I don't think it is right to call Scientology a religion, however, because Scientology is a lot more than that. Scientology is the most "honest spiritual development" on earth. And if you don't agree with that, then you're reading the wrong blog. Anyone is welcome to post on one of the many Scientology hate sites, of which the corrupt "Church" of David Miscavige is cut from the same cloth. Scientology [censored]iloso[censored]y creates miracles and can do more for people than anything else out there. And that is being honest. A real on-purpose Scientologist, actively involved in helping others, with zero hidden agenda of "trying to overwhelm people for Miscavige" or "clawing up IAS cash" or "getting footage for a PR video" or "calling Scientology a religion" has more right to wear the garb of a minister than anyone because they have real answers. You could bring any minister on earth, any man of God... sit them down before a real Scientologist and it would be like teaching a first grader the ABCs. I'm not saying they couldn't teach us something, but in the main people don't have any TECHNOLOGY on how to handle life. And they don't really know who they are, where they came from, why they are here, where they are going, what happens when they die. They don't know how to handle confusions, how to handle this and that. Sure, the Scientologist would learn a lot from them too. But when the dust settles, it would be the minister taking the role of student. Don't believe me? Try me out. Unlike Tommy Davis and chicken-shit Miscavige, I can publicly answer ANY question about Scientology.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Thoughtful</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:36:12 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3689</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3688</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I think there is a reason. Which is (or may be) that having ministers and delivering Sunday services for deceptive reasons smacks of, well, deception. That may bode well for the 'acceptable truth' Scientology theory/doctrine of helping people in spite of themselves, but it makes a bit of a mockery of honest spiritual development, which historically (and spiritually) stands on the premise of, well, honesty. lam]]></description>
			<dc:creator>lamoore</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:16:47 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3688</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3686</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Points made and taken Steve. Denial of self is the beginning. Well said.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jim Logan</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Tue, 28 Dec 2010 07:30:47 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3686</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3684</link>
			<description><![CDATA[As you said, the R word is possibly one of the most charged words of all. But the beauty is, we aren't part of the Church. So an Independent is free to relay their own reality, i.e., what is true for them. DM thinks that is a weakness because he totally misses the whole point of Scientology. I see it as a strength. My reality is: it's not a religion in the western sense; it's a spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y. Yes, it is applied, but I believe for most people, keeping it simple is best in response to "What is it?" A simple question deserves a simple answer. Thanks Jim.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Thoughtful</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 19:45:39 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3684</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3683</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Steve, Maybe it's a hair split, or maybe it's a critical difference that in communication opens or closes the door, but I say Scientology is an applied [censored]iloso[censored]y that addresses the spiritual nature of beings. An applied spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y if you will. That's possibly not too much different than an applied religious [censored]iloso[censored]y or perhaps, as you've found by perusing the various surveys on the area, it is in a number of people's minds a vast though seemingly subtle shift in meaning. Religion is a charged word for lots and lots and lots of beings on this planet. It's a charged subject. I think the prime issue for me is that I can practice Scientology as a 'religous' activity and do so without the interference of some AMA, APA etc., defining it as 'medicine' 'psycho-therapy' and thus attempting to regulate it or even ban its practice. In some conversations this weekend with non-Scientologists, after reading this article briefly, I did a little test myself. I said the words Church of Scientology, but then I did add, 'listen, it's not like any other 'church', it's an applied [censored]iloso[censored]y that covers a being's spiritual nature'. I did notice, when I got the 'religion' button out of the way, the people I was talking to were receptive and they are not receptive to any of the 'religion' talk that goes around, for ANY religion. Personally, I think you've honed in a something that LRH was looking at, and as you recall in the late 70s, an attempt was made with the Marketing Series, the Trout and Ries seminars and such to 'position' Scn so it communicated and didn't hit the buttons you're talking about in this piece.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Jim Logan</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 18:06:08 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3683</guid>
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		<item>
			<title>RE: faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3682</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I understand your point, but the fact is Scientology requires no faith in order to work. It even says so itself, so this is not just my opinion. Perhaps you might wish to differentiate between "faith" and "blind faith." The former comes from the observation that something works as stated. The latter, blind faith, is the condition of believing in something WITHOUT proof or evidence; no inspection, no looking or confront. Hence someone going along on blind faith can easily be lied to and tricked. We're all proof of that, me included. But the tech either works or it doesn't. You don't have to "believe" in a contact assist for it to work. It simply works. Remember Scientology is an applied [censored]iloso[censored]y. Take Dianetics for example. LRH explains how to audit. I applied it and darned if it didn't work EXACTLY like LRH said it did. That required no faith on my part. Just eyes. But do I have faith in the Book One today? Of course! I've seen it work on a multitude of people. Does that faith blind me to the illegal activities of the Church? Nope. So it's not blind faith. It is faith based on personal integrity; i.e., real faith. In my hands, the technology has always worked and it has never required any faith on my part to see that it worked like LRH said. I suggest to you that faith is not what keeps people in the Church. Lies, ignorance and fear is what keeps them in. It all starts when one forfeits their personal integrity; once that is gone, they have lost everything. And what comes from that is your own personal horror story. I know, because I have my own horror story. So in all this, I am speaking from personal experience. Now: you said "what keeps people in Scn" I'm assuming you meant the Church. If you mean what keeps them a Scientologist, I'm going to say the only thing that should keep you anywhere is your own personal integrity. If you violate your own personal integrity to stay anywhere, you're ASKING for trouble, and you really don't have much right to bemoan the resulting horror story which is INEVITABLE. In the case of this website, we aren't bemoaning, we are attacking criminality for the sake of protecting others and to reopen the Bridge. These people who throw the baby out with the bath water amaze me. That's like buying a new car, letting David Miscavige put cement in the tank instead of gasoline, and then taking your car back to the dealership and telling everyone "It didn't work." We all point the finger at DM, and rightly so: he is a dirty rotten little sniveling germ. But the real pivotal point for the individual is the violation of his or her own personal integrity. That was the door they opened of their own free will, that let the wolf into the hen house. The road to being a victim requires just one step: violate your personal integrity. You are instantly a victim. Steve]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Thoughtful</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:57:26 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3682</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3681</link>
			<description><![CDATA[J.Swift, thank you very much for your detailed answers. They permitted to discover a number of differences, like the organizational structure or the one year term of office of the officials. From that I would conclude that the two movements can be compared only partially and further, that the measures to effect a change would have to respond to such differences. I share your hope for peaceful changes. I consider anyone a friend who tries in a reasonable way to make this planet a better place. Thanks again for your answers.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Worsel</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 16:51:56 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3681</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>faith</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3680</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I agree Scn is a [censored]iloso[censored]y more than a religion. But I disagree that Scn doesn't contain faith. The reason people stay in Scn is because of a belief or faith in the Bridge, in total freedom and immortality and OT powers, even a faith in learning to be an auditor in order to help others. That is what kept me going for all those years, that hope, that promise of betterment. No, it's not faith in God or Jesus as your savior, but it is faith in the technology as your savior. I see no difference.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Obnosis</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 15:55:25 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3680</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3679</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Worsel, yours are great questions and I will answer them with these disclaimers: A. I speak only for myself and not for any other Mason or as a Masonic official of any kind. B. I am not promoting or endorsing Masonry. I am simply comparing CoS to Masonry. C. I fully support the right of people to practice Scientology inside and outside of CoS. I do not oppose the practice of Scientology. Rather, I oppose the human rights abuses and lies of David Miscavige as conducted through CST, RTC, CSI, CoS, IAS, WISE, ABLE, and all other corporations he controls as an absolute dictator. Now, here are my answers: 1. Masonry is not a religion. It is a fraternity devoted to moral improvement and charity. Therefore, Masonry does not enjoy religious protection as does CoS. So first this: Masonry knows what it is and it is most definitely not a religion. Therefore, Masonry has no religious protections or scriptures. There are Masonic books and customs, but they are not deemed to be scripture because Masonry is not a religion. The actual practice of Masonry is an agreed upon set of practices that derive from the ancient customs and practices of Masonry. Masonry was not created by any one person but was created over time by many Masonic scholars and lodges. Masonry has no single Source or Founder. 2. Masonic offices are held by elected officials. Masonic officials are elected and serve for one year terms. There are clearly defined rules whereby an offending Masonic official Mason may be removed from office or even expelled from Masonry. This requires a Masonic Trial wherein the accused Mason is allowed to defend their self and face their accusers. Masonic Trials are rare and very rare and very serious affairs over which very Senior Masons preside. Masons like to "nip things in the bud" in private, gentle ways. It is part of our code to speak privately to an errant member and seek to restore him to regular practice. 2A. Masonry is a voluntary association and people are free to leave at any time if they are unhappy. You have to want to be a Mason. If you wish to no longer be a Mason, Masonry wishes you the best and bids you farewell. The way one leaves Masonry is simple: You stop attending meetings, stop participating, and stop paying dues. There is no routing out required. It is all voluntary. 2B. The [censored]rase "Of your own free will and accord" is of paramount importance in Masonry. A Mason chooses to be a Mason and chooses to obey all rules and customs of their own free will and accord. 3. There is no CST, RTC, or any other form of centralized control in Masonry. Each country in Europe and in other countries has its own Grand Lodge. Each state in the USA has its own Grand Lodge. By analogy, each Grand Lodge is its own RTC and controls the purity of Masonry in its own jurisdiction. Each Grand Lodge is its own jurisdiction and grants charters to the individual lodges in its jurisdiction. For example, California Lodges are granted their authority to operate as Lodges by virtue of having been granted charters from the California Grand Lodge. In California and other US states, Lodges are divided into districts and each district has a high-ranking senior Mason in charge as the District Inspector. His job is to ensure compliance of the lodges in his district to Masonic customs and forms. 3A. If a California Masonic Lodge began to engage in "Clandestine Masonry" i.e. practices that violated Masonic rules and practices, there would be an investigation by the district inspector. If the Lodge did not stop its irregular practices, Grand Lodge could expel the offending members responsible for the clandestine practices, revoke the Lodge's charter, or both; this after a hearing by Grand Lodge officials. Thus, elected Masonic officials can strategically expel offending officials, individuals, or Lodges. 4. There is no centralized power in Masonry. Therefore, if, say, Nevada Grand Lodge made a rule that other Grand Lodges in the US did not agree with, these other Grand Lodges are under no obligation to obey the Nevada rule. 4A. As a California Mason, I am under the jurisdiction of the California Grand Lodge. No other Grand Lodge has authority over me. As a California Mason, I have the right to appeal matters directly to Grand Lodge. Individual Masons always have the right to go to Grand Lodge. There is a protocol of course, but the point is that I can bypass a senior who I believe to be in violation of Masonic practices. I have never done this and such a bypass is exceptionally rare in Masonry. 5. The spending of money is voted upon and approved by the membership at every level of Masonry. In a Lodge of Masons, a yearly budget is made and approved by vote of the members. During the budget year, discretionary monies are spent. However, this spending is discussed and voted on during the monthly business meeting. There is free and open debate during which time all members are allowed to speak. After discussion, a vote is taken. This is true at Grand Lodge level. Worsel, I hope this answers your questions. I hope that sweeping and peaceful changes are made in CoS that end all human rights abuses. /////]]></description>
			<dc:creator>J. Swift</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 13:12:25 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3679</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3676</link>
			<description><![CDATA[J,Swift, thanks for this viewpoint. If possible I would want to know: How would a mason suggest to deal with that situation, when one of their top management people would for example start to reform masonry into a cult, drinking the blood of their enemies, practicing which hunts with final burnings, develop thought policing differentiating who would be a "good" or a "bad mason", etc. etc.? If a percentage of masons followed that new "masonry-cult" would that be the end of masonry? These are not rethorical questions. What would they do? And thank you, Steve, for this article.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Worsel</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Mon, 27 Dec 2010 00:14:13 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3676</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3675</link>
			<description><![CDATA[A series of newspaper articles from 1950 has just been posted on OCMB. IMO, these articles were written by LRH under the pseudonym "John Clarke." LRH wrote under many pen names, so this is consistent with his style. I suggest Indies read these articles. The first post is entitled, "1950 Daily News Article (First of a Series)": [censored]://ocmb.xenu.net/ocmb/vie wtopic.[censored]?f=9&t=33543&start =0 ***** I agree with what Thoughtful has written: Scientology is not a religion in the formal sense, nor does it need to be. Here is an idea to consider: I am a Mason. Masonry is a moral and spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y. While we believe in God, God is not defined. Each Mason is free to say what God is for them. We believe in the Afterlife. Each Mason is free to say what the Afterlife is for them. Jews, Christians, Hindus, and members of all faiths come together in Lodge to practice Masonry's moral science. Masonry is a non-profit organization that men, women, teens, and children can belong. Masonry is a voluntary association that never recruits, has high ethical standards, and whose primary goals are moral improvement and charity. In almost every town in America and Europe, there is a Masonic Lodge. Masonry is pervasive, quiet, powerful, influential, and quite wealthy. For example, Masonry owns the L.A. Shrine where CoS holds events. There is an enormous amount of Dead Agent material and anti-Masonic hate sites online. Masonry ignores it all. We believe in free speech. Most Masons are quietly bemused by the ignorance of our critics. Masonry spends money on charity and other important things. Masonry does not waste money attacking our critics and their rightful freedom of speech. Because they are free to speak out, we are free to speak out. This is good. ***** As Independents have learned, CoS and OSA are easy to bullbait. They react like a fully restimulated engram, or whatever it is Scientologists call massive upset. I do agree that CoS has become a Reactive Mind group. Anonymous' protests really showed how cowed CoS has become under DM. ***** If CoS behaved like Masonry, it could become a quietly influential power group. Maybe someday after DM flees to Bulgravia, CoS could look at a Masonic model in terms of governance and deportment. Civility and quiet dignity are important to Masonry. Where is the civility and quiet dignity in CoS? /////]]></description>
			<dc:creator>J. Swift</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 15:14:12 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3675</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3674</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Steve, Wow, fantastic article!! So simple! So powerful! I can't think of anything more powerful than "Truth"!! Thanks!!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>cre8</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 12:18:33 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3674</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>SAI</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3673</link>
			<description><![CDATA[OMG! I totally agree, in my opinion the attainment of religious status has barred the door - for a huge percentage of the 3D and 4D - from having, knowing and knowing the tech is correct. Now that IS suppressive! About 2 years ago, before I even heard about independents or this site - at the risk of being sacrilegious - I had a similar discussion with my 2D. It is so funny, how the more I read these postings, I continually find myself reminded of the story The Emperor's New Clothes. Thanks for your post. SAI]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Seekign-As-Isness</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 08:49:37 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3673</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3672</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I totally agree. I live in the UK where religion has a really bad rep. If I were to get in comm with a stranger and say I'm in the *Church* of Scientology they'd think "oh just like Christianity, Islam etc - religion causes all wars..". If I say I use Scientology which is a [censored]iloso[censored]y of life they go 'oh yeah whats that?" - they're interested and in comm!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>aotc</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sun, 26 Dec 2010 06:00:14 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3672</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3671</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Great article, Steve. Love your writing style, too. I think Scientology became a religion under the pressure of circumstances in 1952 for two reasons: (1) defense and (2) tax evasion. Not sure what bullets LRH was dodging in 1952 and why but I know that hostility toward Scientology now is based on the fact that it is a criminal and corrupt organization where staff members are abused and mistrusted and 7 billion "wogs" are held in contempt. It would not even need any special defense advantages if it was following the principles of Scientology. And the point on taxes is just a dramatization of LRH absolute fixation on tax evasion. Fair taxes are good for the soul because they are the means of contributing on 3D and even on 4D. So there are no reasons really to insist that Scientology is a religion except for the self-inflicted public outrage wounds and tax evasion fixation.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Misha</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 19:03:12 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3671</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3669</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Steve, brilliant article with the proper em[censored]asis in the right place - 'only call something by its actual name. Calling it a church is just to mask its supposed tax exempt status.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Whodat</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 15:33:19 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3669</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Fantastic article</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3668</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Thanks Dan. I have been working on this article, reaching and withdrawing from it, for about a year I think trying to sort it out. Finally it all came together. It is ironic that LRH coined the word "thetan" avoiding use of the words "soul" and "spirit" because they were too loaded with negative associations and unclear meanings... yet he allowed parishioners to associate the entire subject with the most loaded word in the entire language: "religion." Of course, no one is perfect and we all make mistakes (except for DM). Luckily, LRH also said what's true in Scientology is what's true for YOU (para[censored]rasing). Perhaps there were other reasons for labeling Scientology a religion at the time (survival in the face of heavy government attacks). But I believe today it is a mistake to carry on with this solution because it has become a liability and a problem blocking dissemination. When one explains to someone that "Scientology is not a religion; it's a spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y," there is no disagreement. (And when you explain the Church is a corrupt mafia-like crime syndicate, there is no disagreement on that either.)]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Thoughtful</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 14:52:51 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3668</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>[censored]iloso[censored]y</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3667</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Love the article. I never say 'religion' about Scientology, always '[censored]iloso[censored]y'.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>tunedal</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 14:37:53 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3667</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3666</link>
			<description><![CDATA[I agree that it would be limiting the scope of Scientology to restrict its religious [censored]iloso[censored]y. It is WAY more than that!]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Karen B</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 13:55:55 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3666</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Revision</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3665</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Actually, I don't care if it is Sunday Service per say as I think church service of any denomination is on the downtrend. This statement based on comparing average family life 40 years ago to today. It was common practice for the whole family to go to church every week. So much so that most stores except for the occassional 7 eleven convenience store were all closed for the day. I live in the Bible Belt and even here, many people don't attend church regularly. I think weddings, funerals etc natural fall in with the [censored]iloso[censored]y just by themselves. The thing that I would like to see rekindled is the free lecture (theta entertainment and social event). A place were people can introduce their friends to Scientology [censored]ilos[censored]y without it becoming a reg cycle. Seeing keyed out people is probably one of the simplest forms of effective dissemination. People want to be happy. Enthusiasm and interest are infectious and it is natural for people to want that for themselves.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Karen B</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 13:31:45 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3665</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>Fantastic article</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3664</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Steve, really great job. It reminded me of a time that a fellow SHSBC student had gotten into an accident on his motorcucle and was in the hospital and in need of assists. The super asked me to do it and I went into the hospital wearing a white suit, black minister's shirt and cross. People were literally moving back against the walls of the hospital hallway to make way for me. And hospital hallways are wide. Anyway, the guy got better but that was an instance I observed of the power of religious sympbology, at least in Los Angeles. That said, the approach you have laid out here, that Scientology is spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y, makes tons more sense than cramming the subject into religion. There are those who do not think Buddhism is a religion because there is no specific worship of a god. Anyway, thanks for another brilliant article. And very timely, published as it is on the day before the return of the sun after the winter solstice. The movie Zeitgeist, available on line, explains the whole thing in astrological terms. Three days after the sun disappears, it reappears, following the constellation Virgo, the virgin. All the best to every reader of this site for the season and into 2011.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Joe Howard</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 13:22:40 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3664</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>Revision</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3663</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Okay Karen, I just revised the final section to make sure it's clear that as a "spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y" we can still have Sunday Services, ministers, etc. ~Steve]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Thoughtful</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Sat, 25 Dec 2010 10:21:00 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3663</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3662</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Yes, I agree with you. Just in case I didn't make this clear, I'm not attempting to exclude Scientology from religion; I'm saying it's bigger than that. Scientology encompasses the subject of religion: thus to say it's only a religion is limiting it's actual scope. I completed Minister's Course when I was training as a staff auditor and was ordained as a minister of Scientology in about 1982. Because I was on staff, I used to wear a minister's garb once a week or so and it was a lot of fun. That collar sure commanded attention on the streets of Austin, Texas. Today, I can't think of any reason why ministers of Scientology couldn't continue to dress the part. Certainly anyone can deliver services on Sunday. I guess what I'm trying to say is why can't a "spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y" have ministers and deliver Sunday services? I think there is no reason. Just no one had thought of it that way before... Yes, we have ministers. Yes, we have Sunday Services. No, Scientology isn't a "religion": it's a spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y. We rehabilitate spiritual abilities. We deal with the human soul. We have the answers as to who you are and why you are here and what happens after death. We can give sermons and conduct marriages. We are a spiritual [censored]iloso[censored]y. Thoughts?]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Thoughtful</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:44:30 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3662</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3661</link>
			<description><![CDATA[So good to see an article by you, Steve. Great topic! I agree with everything you said, 100%. One comment, working in 6B, I had to make sure there was a Sunday Service each week and it was really difficult to get any real expanding attendance unless you had a really dynamic minister, a wedding, funeral, etc. The sad thing about this becoming such a disinteresting activity was that there were some [censored]enomenal sermons that were really quite mind blowing. LRH really did have a way of communicating about various things that come up in day to day living. They would envoke thought and raise perception. When I realized that these were some real LRH gems, I began to look forward to Sunday Service. Back in the 70's we did have Sunday Service but at night. Standardly it was started with music from local talents, a dynamic speaker on some aspect of Scientology (very broad)and then fruit and desserts. The rest was just a social gathering. In fact, my very first visit to the mission was a Sunday Service and I was very impressed with the tone level of all of the people attending. None of my friends were happy, laughing and smiling. And I got to find out my first truth. I wasn't a meat body. It really was a safe place to bring your nonscientology friends in for an intro. I would love to see more of this as the independent field evolves. But, lets leave the church out of it.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>Karen B</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 24 Dec 2010 22:01:44 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3661</guid>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title>RE: Is Scientology a religion?</title>
			<link>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3660</link>
			<description><![CDATA[Excellent! I've been thinking recently, "Why do I need to call Scientology a religion? Why do I need that burden and what constructive purpose does it serve? Why add that piece of dev-t where I would have to 'handle' someone on why it is a religion when all I want to do is provide some help to the person? Do I really need to say to someone that 'Scientology is my religion'?" Factually, looking back on it, I never actually considered it my religion, though I have used it a lot and it has been a major part of my life. I don't need to be labeled this way and it's a relief to realize that.]]></description>
			<dc:creator>GetTheConcept</dc:creator>
			<pubDate>Fri, 24 Dec 2010 17:28:39 -0600</pubDate>
			<guid>https://mail.scientology-cult.com/is-scientology-a-religion.html#comment-3660</guid>
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